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Am I out of line? (43 posts)
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NotTheEnemy
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Click for profile 		Okay: situation in a wrap...

I'm letting my ex stay with me while he gets on his feet. We aren't together, but we are friends and we do mess around as one would expect. He's not like the assholes I let stay with me in the past, meaning he talks to me and we actually get along. He helps with the dog, pulls his weight... but we are opposites.

So right now he has his truck, but his insurance ran out and his liscense was suspended for not insuring the vehicle. He does drive like, within a 5 mile radius where our friends live. I tend to ask to go with him cause I haven't had a vehicle in a year, and I'm unemployed so I don't like sitting in the apartment that, coincidentally, he's staying with me in. So we're together a lot... I like company and from actions, he does to...words say he likes to be alone and do his thing.

On those words, today, riding to the store he asks, "So will you be mad if I like, leave town for my birthday?" Which is monday, labor day. Which is like, a day I want to hang out at a beach or bbq with friends and all that..

My response was. "Yes." I would be mad. Now, maybe a selfish response, but it's true. I would be mad. I'm leaving on Tuesday, back on friday, to pick up my car back home, and I'll have my own vehicle and my own ride and can go where I want when I want. So I'll be out of his hair, if I've been "in his hair" this whole time... which I hope isn't true cause I'd be getting used again, but anyway... I'm not his mom, or his family so no, I haven't been there his whole life, but I feel like birthdays are not just to run away and hide on so no one celebrates it... it's to spend with the people who are happy you are in this world and alive. So why...leave town. When you can't drive your car, you have no money, and you don't want to celebrate. It doesn't seem like you will get very far, unless I'm just not being included in whatever he does.

I don't really know how long this could go on, this rant I've got going, cause I am really pissed off. It's not just trying to dip on your birthday, it's like trying to dodge me I feel like.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 12:26 PM
supporter graphic  Un-Jelli
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Click for profile 		I kind of think you are. In that he should be free to go for the day should he so choose. Really the only thing he owes you is helping out around the house, etc for letting him stay there. Also, I thought the whole point of birthday celebrations was (or atleast was supposed to be) to make the birthday person happy? If he wants to bolt for the day, why not let him? I realise that you'll feel a little lonely, but is there anyone else you can spend that day with?
quote / posted 02 September 2011 12:42 PM
Tiresias
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Click for profile 		Yeah, what Anjali said. I'd love it if my dear friends celebrated their birthdays with me around, and I'd be somewhat sad if they didn't want that as well, but it really should be up to them and I wouldn't be mad at them for it. Besides that, it seems like he felt he practically had to ask permission from you to take off for one day, which is a bit weird. It's just one day! If you want to have a BBQ or whatever get some other friends together.

[This post edited by Tiresias on 02 September 2011 ]

quote / posted 02 September 2011 12:54 PM
NotTheEnemy
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Click for profile 		Problem is this: Times around here have hit hard and a lot of my friends have also lost their independence. Some in the ways that they lost their vehicles or liscense, or they could no longer afford a cell phone, or simply they are unemployed and can't get out too much any more. I find myself often going through my phone, and not finding too many people to call. A lot of business names, or old co workers...Or lot of them are from my hometown.

So I've kind of surrounded myself with people who live close by, for the most part. I worked at a bar that was centrally located between my apartment and my now friends' house, most of them started as patrons, which is how I met my ex/friend/roomate. So our circle of friends is primarily the same.

Now, people call me to reach my friend who lives with me, we'll call him Bob. Bob has no phone, and most people that know him, know he is staying with me and can be reached by calling me. I tend to get paranoid if I even try to call any of our other friends when he's about town for fear of being looked at as that "Crazy girl" or something... but it's okay they look for him with me. So when no one picks up, and Bob isn't home, and all I'm trying to do is look for friends to hang out with, I get a little "I don't have anyone"ish. Lonely, yeah that.

And no, he really doesn't ask for permission to do anything normally and I don't ask. Generally we're pretty vauge. Example of a typical conversation.

Bob: Going out, see ya later, be back never. (sarcasm to push my buttons.)
Ali: Oh come on, where are ya going?
Bob: Over there.
Ali: Okay. See ya later?
Bob. Eventually.
Ali: Have fun.
Bob: Bye.

I think I'm mostly mad, because I don't think he's just gonna go out of town... and why ask me when he knows that would hurt my feelings. Like, we ARE opposites. Where I am overly sensetive, he is overly unaffected. It's hard to explain, because he isn't selfish; he goes out of his way plenty for friends, like I do, but like, our manner in doing it is different. Where if you asked him for a ride in the middle of the night and it was a problem, he would do it. And be a dick, but do it. And I wouldn't be a dick, I'd be probably even accomodating depending on cirumstances, and I'd get you. We are compatable in what we do, but not how we express it, if that makes sense.

I just don't understand why he WOULD wanna leave me out, if he lives with me right now, and it's just another day. I don't HAVE to plan something, but it just makes me feel kinda unwanted. I wish I could "Invite" people over or organize something to not be lonely, but it's like, most of my friends are spread out and hard to get to now. Or don't know each other? I could just be being oversensetive to the fact I'm potentially getting ditched. I hate being ditched because it really reminds me of Old Me and old me was really pathetic and clingy, and people talked behind my back but hung out with me anyway. So it just riles me up, I guess.

I know I've blown it way out of proportion. I'm not blind to that, but ugh, just hate that feeling.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 1:33 PM
CaptainPlanet
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Click for profile 		Yes
quote / posted 02 September 2011 3:44 PM
smurf19
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Click for profile 		Clearly he cares about how you feel, because he actually asked you how you'd feel about it. You see that as a negative, that he knew it would hurt your feelings, but don't you think him just disappearing on Monday, without letting you know would hurt your feelings more?

Also, you say you're going out of town on Tuesday, back Friday. So it's ok for you to take off and leave him, but he's not allowed to go elsewhere?

I could see your point if you guys had made clear plans and he was peacing out, but that's not the case.

Also, as Anjali said, it's *his* bday, not yours. So while you'd like to have a bbq or go to the beach, it's not your day. He gets to choose how he wants to spend it. You have to realize that any moment he chooses to be away from you isn't a rejection.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 5:29 PM
NotTheEnemy
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Click for profile 		It would hurt my feelings but it's like, now I feel rejected for a couple days instead of just one. And yeah, it's totally I feel like I'm rejected. I know I'm going out of town, but the problem is, he doesn't care that I'm going out of town. He'll probably enjoy the break from me. He's allowed to go wherever he wants to, but in my head it's just polite if you let someone know whats up.

For example, after we went through this all, he said he was going on a walk. A walk turned into taking his illegal truck to hang out with mutual friends who will not pick up my call because they were friends with him first. He assumes I'm trying to reach him. So anyway, I get a call like, 3 hours after he left from him asking if I'm still mad, and I said no, and his response was he will see me in a little bit and bring home beer. Fast forward 3 hours later. I have a key, he doesn't, so I'm stuck waiting inside and no way to know if he's coming back, should I do something else. It's friday, why did I get left home? am I a job during the week that on friday he's gonna escape from? He doesn't let me make plans, which is why he told me today he's gonna "peace out" on his birthday, so I don't plan anything. But he's like, anti-plan maker. Even when he does, like today, he doesn't come through with the plan that was his idea!

So after sitting the whole day, yeah, I'm out of line. But I think it's just stemming from this building up of resentment and fear of rejection which turns into "WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO INCLUDE ME!" Yes, literally, in caps as a banner across my forehead.

And the thing about the BBQ or Beach is the inclusion of it's labor day. If he isn't really leaving town and hanging with our other friends but not telling me, I'm gonna look like the crazy girl trying to invite people over but is secretly looking for him (not true, just want the same people around me that are normally around us because, supposedly, they are my friends too and have been for almost a year now.). If it's like any other day of the year, or rather, the day of the year it is (labor day) then I just felt like what's the big deal about avoiding people, just enjoy the holiday and blend in. But that's why I feel rejected or dodged...

I mean, he brings up that I could call these people that are aquaintance. But that's the problem, they are aquaintances and they don't know each other really so it's weird, the circle I have no just kinda knows each other and seems to be together at most times. I feel like it's me left out cause I have nothing better to do but think these kind of things over.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 5:43 PM
supporter graphic  Un-Jelli
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Click for profile 		Sounds like he's not totally respectful house guest, if you have to wait for him to come home, without any indication of when he may deign to show up. You definately have the right to be annoyed by that.type of behaviour.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 6:01 PM
smurf19
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quoting: NotTheEnemy
It would hurt my feelings but it's like, now I feel rejected for a couple days instead of just one. And yeah, it's totally I feel like I'm rejected. He'll probably enjoy the break from me. He's allowed to go wherever he wants to, but in my head it's just polite if you let someone know whats up.

You can't have it both ways. You're saying here that by letting you know, you feel rejected, but that you also have expectations that he'll let you know what's up. He did let you know what's up. You just didn't like what it was.

quote:
I know I'm going out of town, but the problem is, he doesn't care that I'm going out of town.

I think this statement is a little concerning. You care when he's not around, and you see it as a problem that he doesn't care when you come or go. I think you might be a little too emotionally dependant on him.

I get that you're socially isolated and you see him as a connection to people. But while he's your only connection to fun and friends right now, it sounds like he has other people to hang out with. Do you think that your reliance on him may be one of the reasons he's looking to spend his birthday out of town?

[This post edited by smurf19 on 02 September 2011 ]

quote / posted 02 September 2011 6:27 PM
LemonDaisy
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Click for profile 		You're out of line. You're also pretending you're okay with a much more casual deal than you are. Don't act like you're only friends if you expect more.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 6:35 PM
NotTheEnemy
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Click for profile 		I already said I'm out of line... agreed. It's his birthday, I'm being selfish.

And yes, I am dependant on him right now to get out, but like.. I don't know. I'm a different person. If I was living with someone, rent free and unemployed in a nice apartment that's always clean and they were always down to throw the parties with their/our friends, then I'd be a little bit more...inclusive to that person.

Yes, I probably am emotionally dependant on him, it's a big downfall I have, I really don't know how to change it because, hell, I can't be emotionally dependant on myself, we know how that goes.

Being alone, for me, stems a big fear that I will fuck up. I will fuck up royally because if people aren't around to hold me accountable, I have tended to do badly. So It's a safety net, if people are around I have to behave normal. I can't have anxiety breakdowns or depressive thoughts. I just kind of get in the social group, it's like, a coping skill for me.

And no, I don't want something more from him than he is willing to give. Yes, I am still a jealous ex and all that, still attracted to him. But there have been statements in the past that I've made such as "I know we'll never be together again, I'm not pushing that..." But then he countered with. "I never said we wouldn't be together again." When in the past he has said like, "I don't redate girls I've let go." As well as "I've never been friends with an ex." And we are. It's been a while, I've had my side fling or two, and as long as I don't know about it, I don't CARE what he does.

I guess I go more out of my way for friends than some people do because I feel it's all I can do, I still don't take care of myself first. I'm not trying to get people on my side in this thread, it was generally a true "Am I out of line" statement, and I've taken in the comments and yeah, it is his birthday I'm SOL and I'll get over it like I do other things. But it makes me sad. I've been rejected by so many people that now I just... feel like I'm the kid that no one wants to hang out with but they do cause I contribute.

I don't 'expect' more to come from our friendship, I'm really just saying I would be more thankful for the person letting me stay with them, than annoyed. He chose to stay with me, he had options, I only offered. If he didn't like me than leave and let me get over him as a person, I've gotten over him as an ex. But for now, we are both unemployed, we cook meals together, we share the bed, we agree on things that we should do or who to invite over...

And the other people he has to hang out with aren't other people, they are the same people I know, he just doesn't want to include me on them, but it's like, before they can invite me he puts the "No" word out there, and then they think something is up and don't call me back. So I'm like, triple quadruple rejected.

And I worry a lot cause he's got no liscense, no tag... I worry that he could get into trouble because ALL of our friends have had close calls lately. Me, I'm going out of town to pick up a car and be with my family, all legal and safe. But I worry that he won't care that I'm out of town because that means, he's only staying with me for a place to stay, not cause he's my friend and would miss me.

But then again, maybe that's me. I would miss people. I would look forward for them to get back.

Yes, I am emotionally attatched still. I am lonely, isolated, and just want outside stimulation. My reason being is like, if you stay in my house and have our friends here, why is it when he goes in his truck and goes to those friends, I'm not invited. I lack a ride. He lacks a home, see how this could be a mutual benefit to both, but it's like I'm helping him and he can't help me with the thing I know calms me down, being around people. He could drop me off with people we know and if he has other people he wants to hang out with, fine, but he doesn't. They are the same people. They're all dudes though and like I said, they knew him first even though I've found a place there too and independantly, without him, hung out with the guys on my own before we ever split.

I'm just lonely, I want to get out, and I want to be considered.

Yes, I know I'm in the wrong, and I'm totally not perfect. I've got rid of a lot of demons but it's like this new one reared it's ugly head after recovery because in recovery, people were always around to keep me accountable. When I'm alone it's like that utter despair that I have no one sinks in. It's a mental issues, I'm not sane. It's why I asked everyone, for that outside perspective.

Sorry if I rambled.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 7:46 PM
LemonDaisy
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Click for profile 		Sad! You want more than you're going to get. Period. You will cling to any scrap of hope and he will feed those scraps to you to get free room and board. Do not confuse his willingness to sleep with you and take your charity for anything more than that.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 7:48 PM
NotTheEnemy
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Click for profile 		Oh lol, he's not willing to sleep with me all the time, it's not like he propositions me for sex... that's me cause I'm a horny bitch, seriously. And honestly, I don't want to think he's getting free room and board on feeding me "Scraps" because he's been emancipated since 16, like me. If he doesn't like something, no matter how free it is, he will leave. Sleep in his truck. He didn't like how his parents were and he emancipated himself from them... He had a stable job and all that for years, the kid is only turning 23 and it's just... I want more than I'm getting, but I don't want a relationship. I want a best friend, or a friend who would rather hang with me or around me cause they want to, not cause I ask to. I just want to be important to someone, in the smallest way really. I've been duped so many times, but this time it doesn't feel like it used to. When we're alone and stuff, and have nothing to do, we're great, we're friends, and it's not like "Patty Cake" friends, like, we horse around and pick on each other, have a great time. I know the real weird him that's like a social outcast from highschool and he knows the real me, not just the "I'm a cool bartender" facade.

I'm having a few too many beers and I'm just sad now I think. Like he finally got back, reminding you, illegal tag and it's after dark and he has one headlight out and was drinking, and now he's gone out again.. I'm not supposed to worry? 2 of our friends just got DUIs... He has no liscense and gets a DUI? Fucked. Oh not to mention the tire about to blow...that's nothing illegal but he'll have to leave it where it is because he can't get it towed, I can't get it towed, and it's illegal. Not to mention I had just calmed down, and then he's silently up and leaving from being passed out on the bed for a couple minutes.

But no, he doesn't tell me what I want to hear or he'd come up with way better lies instead of just avoiding the "truth" I suppose.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 8:02 PM
smurf19
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Click for profile 		I understand worrying about a friend. But you aren't responsible for his actions. He's choosing to drive without a license, if he gets caught, he has to deal with the consequences. And honestly, I know he's your friend and all, but if you're worried he's getting a DUI because he drinks and then gets behind the wheel, I hope he gets caught. That shit isn't cool.

The thing is, it sounds like you do have a best friend. He hangs out, helps around the house, you guys have fun together. But the thing is, being a best friend doesn't require someone to spend every day with you and be at your beck and call when you're lonely.

What confuses me is that you opened your first post with the fact that you guys are complete opposites. But then you seem confused when he doesn't respond to situations the exact way you would.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 8:12 PM
NotTheEnemy
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Click for profile 		Cause as much as it's his fault, I feel like I'd have to be responsible to save him. Logically, I know I'm not. And it wouldn't be just him, I'd feel responsible to save a lot of my close friends. (Agreed that drunk driving is not cool, I did meet most of these people at a bar and some of their habits are questionable occasionally.) I just feel a responsiblity, because I've taken him in and he DOES help me, and would help me if he could if I needed it. If it came down to it and I had like, a true problem, he would drop what he's doing and get to me. He's done it before, and I've done the same.

I guess when I mean we are opposites, it's like, in the way we handle things. He treats his friends differently than me, a given as I'm the ex to him, and not to them. Hell, one of them even got up and defended me one night when he was being beligerent. They aren't always the nicest guys EITHER and they still stood up for me, because I'm not a lot of the things he thinks I am, like a tag-a-long. I'll have a car, as I said, shortly, and hopefully he'll see that. I can't talk him into otherwise seeing it.

But that's a good point that I hadn't seen...and need to remind myself of often, as it was something I struggled with in recovery: Understanding that not everyone will get me, and that I cannot force everyone to get me and accept it. No matter how many times I say "I just want you to understand," I can't just make them do anything.

So if the same goes for me, then the same stands that I may not understand what he does, or why, but that I just need to accept it because I can't make him understand me.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 8:52 PM
NotTheEnemy
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quoting: smurf19

The thing is, it sounds like you do have a best friend. He hangs out, helps around the house, you guys have fun together. But the thing is, being a best friend doesn't require someone to spend every day with you and be at your beck and call when you're lonely.


Some things are left unfulfilled... Like hugs Sad! Everything else is there, I think. I don't know what a best friend is anymore. I wrongly assume that he can understand how hard it is for me to be alone...like if he did, then he might not leave me...but then again, I can't rely on the fact that I can always have company, so it's not fair to put that on him to not let me be lonely when it happens pretty much as soon as I am alone. It's just too much to burden.

I wasn't like this really when we were together either, because I can let him do his thing and come back. I felt secure because the only reason we split is that he lost his job. Yet now, I just don't have the confidence in myself that he'd come back even to the apartment that he's staying at because I'm so intollerable, in my mind I guess. I just am insecure now that he has no reason to come back. It makes me sad kinda, to think that he can have a lot more fun without me, and in my head that's what I imagine. It's probably not true, but I just...it's through my minds eye.
quote / posted 02 September 2011 8:57 PM
MackLovesChachi
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Click for profile 		Your situation with him sounds really unhealthy for your recovery, and your paranoia over other peoples thoughts towards you is concerning to me. It sounds to me like you need to join some kind of group therapy for people recovering from ED's (not erectile dysfunctions...). That could be a way to quell some of your anxiety, and an awesome way to make friends.

In all your living situation doesn't sound optimal. You might not need to live with a man right now, you may consider just spending some alone time with your dog. That's what helped me, my dog would never choose to hang out with someone over me, she never stays out late without calling, she never misses a meal, and she is ALWAYS down to snuggle.

[This post edited by MackLovesChachi on 03 September 2011 ]

quote / posted 03 September 2011 12:41 AM
supporter graphic  Un-Jelli
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Click for profile 		Mack may be onto something, in that perhaps maybe you shouldn't be living with someone with whom you used to/still seem to kind of want to have a relationship with.

I don't know nearly as much about recovery, but I do think that this situation seems like it might make feelings of loneliness worse instead of better.
quote / posted 03 September 2011 7:55 AM
NotTheEnemy
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Click for profile 		Your both absolutely right that it's not optimal. It's like being caught between a rock and a hard place because I absolutely hate being alone. And I hate change, so when I offered him my place as an option, I was like, YAY company, sort of jumped the gun. But it is difficult being neutral when we still do things together and whatnot, but yet when it comes down to it, he should be allowed to do his own thing. I guess I've been being unfair to him. He isn't like one of the toxic exs, we were great together and we never broke up cause of a fight, but cause he feared losing his job of four years and wanted to focus on recollecting himself. But then he got fired the next day. So it wasn't a big blow out I hate you fight, and he neeeever did me wrong.

I suppose it's only wrong to me when he doesn't invite me because I'd like to be there, as I said a lot of my other friends dont' pick up... I've had a good long time to think of who is a real friend and who isn't in this time of not having a car. Not just cause they won't come get me or something, but cause it just turns out they aren't as good as a friend as I thought they were when I have nothing to offer them.

I do the group therapy/12 steps groups regularly, they're a great support network... A lot of times they have 'just the right thing to say' but it's hard for me to bring those people into my every day life. Sometimes therapy people are a bit..um...zealous? I drink, I smoke, I partake in Mary Jane...it's hard to let people in recovery know those are some of your past times because they're in recovery and you don't know what's a trigger to them or if they're gonna lecture me about shit. Unfortunately there is only one specific ED group a week, and with the lack of car it's hard to get to some of my favorite meetings without asking someone there for a ride (And they never mind.)

That's what I'm banking on though, that this car that I'm going to get on Tuesday will give me back a lot of my independence so when I'm upset, I can't sit here and dwell I can get out there and socialize, meet people, just breathe and escape. I won't feel so "Left behind" if I have that mobility. A job will come, so on so forth. It's a difficult time and I have totally become dependant on him to...just... um. Not do things for me cause I haven't sunk that far, but like. Be my voice of reason? Which is a crutch, I know, I should learn to cope and be okay by myself but it's been such a hard road that I intensely fear what I'm capable of when I'm alone.

I've only done "Bad things" when living alone, and even my mom agrees she'd rather have him stay with me than be alone because I might just not be ready to live alone, not that I'm not an adult, but I like that accountability to normality or someone to eat dinner/lunch with, or just someone to talk to when I'm anxious to distract myself from the anxiety. The anxiety just comes-- it's Generalized Anxiety-- and when I'm alone I make it have a reason. If I'm with someone, I just let it dissipate because there isn't necessarily a reason to be anxious, it's my minds response to my bodies signals.

Well, I can't just kick him out because of it... it's not his fault I gave him a place to stay. But I'm gonna hope and pray that the car and being out of town brings a good change to the apartment.

Mack: 100% dog love Smile My Dad likes my dog, but wishes I didn't have her cause she ties me down. I told him he doesn't know how many times that dog has saved my sanity. And it's true... best thing my asshole-felon-ex could have brought into my life.

(I hope this all made sense as I didn't re-read it, it was in the quick reply box...and I never intended to type that much, lol.)
quote / posted 03 September 2011 9:12 AM
NotTheEnemy
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Click for profile 		OH! Wanted to include that I did live with females up until I moved to this apartment when the house purchase fell through. One was too young and never paid me my rent, and the other one I just couldn't do anymore. She'd be drunk from 7pm-till pass out and just... talked to me all night long about things I was there for or things that happened at work, or just... things she repeated all the time.... So I chose to live alone when I moved out, and quickly found I was lonely here, but I'm locked into a lease for 6 months in this 1 bedroom. I'd advertise for a roomate after he leaves eventually, but I have no space to offer but a couch. And dabnammit, I moved ALL my furniture up 3 stories of stairs.. I don't want to move again already to a bigger place. God... typing out this I feel like I'm doing the pros and cons of having roomates or living alone.

But you're all really helpful in making me level out my prespective here. I forgot that's why I love this site. I pretty much agree with yall on most points. And it helps cause I can think of these sorts of things and open my eyes to when I'm being unreasonable.

[This post edited by NotTheEnemy on 03 September 2011 ]

quote / posted 03 September 2011 9:17 AM

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