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Jesus - Man can be God ?! (74 posts)
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Secrets*Untold
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quoting: my#11
Ok, so what do you believe about absolving sins? If Jesus isn't divine then his death for the sins of the world isn't meaningful enough.
The fact that God became human and vulnerable to save humanity is the beautiful thing about Christianity.


That wasn't the point though. To cover sins, a sinless man had to die to cover the sin of Adam - another sinless man. Therefor it didn't need to be God. How can God be the one to die, if he himself says he can not die? "You are not able to see my face because no man can see me and live..." Exodus - 33:20

Also, God said something about being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end - how could he go out of existance for 3 days?

"He rose up from the dead through the glory of the Father" Romans 6:4....How can God raise himself from the dead if God is dead?


Haha I've probably realllly missed the point but what Hannah said just didn't seem to ring with what I've been taught.
quote / posted 12 February 2011 11:59 AM
MissWartooth
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Click for profile 		Nobody ever said Jesus IS god, I don't think. Only that he's holy.
quote / posted 13 February 2011 10:34 AM
supporter graphic  tripod2000
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quoting: Secrets*Untold
quoting: my#11
Ok, so what do you believe about absolving sins? If Jesus isn't divine then his death for the sins of the world isn't meaningful enough.
The fact that God became human and vulnerable to save humanity is the beautiful thing about Christianity.


That wasn't the point though. To cover sins, a sinless man had to die to cover the sin of Adam - another sinless man. Therefor it didn't need to be God.
Everyone born is born guilty with the sin of Adam. Only God could come to earth and die at the ripe age of 33 free from sin.

quote:
How can God be the one to die, if he himself says he can not die? "You are not able to see my face because no man can see me and live..." Exodus - 33:20

Also, God said something about being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end - how could he go out of existance for 3 days?

Death is in Christianity a shuffling off this moral coil for the soul. The fact that Jesus (The body) was dead for 3 days does not mean God (The spirit within) is ended for three days.
quote / posted 13 February 2011 11:16 AM
my#11
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Click for profile 		Yep, he answered exactly how I would've Beth.

As far as the subject of the Trinity- as some one who analyzes secular literature on a constant basis, I think that there are enough mentioning of God working in many forms that support the continued theme of a Trinity throughout the Bible. Even if you're looking at it purely as literature.
quote / posted 13 February 2011 1:17 PM
supporter graphic  tripod2000
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Click for profile 		I used my sci fi universe analysing skills to answer.
quote / posted 13 February 2011 2:23 PM
Nice
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quoting: tripod2000
Everyone born is born guilty with the sin of Adam. Only God could come to earth and die at the ripe age of 33 free from sin.

Death is in Christianity a shuffling off this moral coil for the soul. The fact that Jesus (The body) was dead for 3 days does not mean God (The spirit within) is ended for three days.

Everyone is born sinless. It doesn't need to be proven. Do you believe that innocent neoborn is an evil ?!!

Furthermore, I am responsible for my sins only ( Denial = Injust God = Denial of (Deuteronomy 24:16)
“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

Once "God" died = CREATURE !!
quote / posted 13 February 2011 3:12 PM
Nice
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quoting: my#11

As far as the subject of the Trinity- as some one who analyzes secular literature on a constant basis, I think that there are enough mentioning of God working in many forms that support the continued theme of a Trinity throughout the Bible. Even if you're looking at it purely as literature.


God is ONE. I repeated this many times !

"You alone , Lord, are God." Isaiah 37:20
"The foremost is, 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; " Mark 12:29
"you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?" John 5:44

Trinity contradict this simple fact ! ( If the bible said he is one ( logic ) and others said he is 3*1 ( unlogic) why should i believe them ?

Furthermore, the early Christians ( the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians ) never know about trinity doctrine at all.

[This post edited by Nice on 13 February 2011 ]

quote / posted 13 February 2011 3:20 PM
supporter graphic  tripod2000
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Click for profile 		The whole point of the trinity is that it is three aspects of the same deity. It's been a long time since I read any Hindu texts but I recall there is a similar concept there. So God is one because he is the father, the son and the holy spirit.

I'm not christian and as such do not believe a new born guilty of sin. Truly a wee bairn is the most beautiful thing til see for they are so pure and innocent. In biblical terms they don't even yet know they are naked so how can they have sinned in such a way? However in the christian religion as Adam was cast from Eden and punished with death, so we suffer for the sins of the father except for God who in coming to earth as Jesus was able to throw off the shackles of death and rise again. A sacrifice so large as to allow forgiveness, an action of breaking the cycle and not allowing us to enter heaven. Sure, we are not born to Eden but must live in the dirt and dust first as we still suffer for the sins of the father. In belief in the resurrection so we honour the sacrifice made by God and as such are able to enter heaven.

I believe Islam has no concept of inherited sin. Perhaps their theology may suit your beliefs better. Might be worth talking with an Imam. No worry that Jesus = God and not worry about original sin.

No person earns any (sin) except against himself, and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another…” (Quran 6:164)
quote / posted 13 February 2011 3:34 PM
Tiresias
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Click for profile 		"wee bairn" is the best phrase ever and that's my contribution to this thread.
quote / posted 13 February 2011 3:45 PM
supporter graphic  tripod2000
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Click for profile 		Sorry, is everyone fluent in Ulster-Scotch/Scotch?
quote / posted 13 February 2011 3:53 PM
Tiresias
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Click for profile 		I know what it means, I think most English speakers do, but most of us probably can't actually use it without sounding facetious. It's great though.

[This post edited by Tiresias on 13 February 2011 ]

quote / posted 13 February 2011 4:08 PM
sweetpealv123
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Click for profile 		Look, just saying things isn't convincing. The rest of us (with the exception of ThePsychedlicFactory) are saying what we believe without citation, not really expecting to convince you, but at least to point out to you that people do firmly believe in other things.

You are saying things, without decent citation (for the most part), as if just repeating them over and over will convince us. It's not like we've never heard of different ways of looking at Christianity. We're aware that people interpret the Bible in different ways. You do not seem aware of this, Nice.

And yes, okay, newborns have not consciously committed any sins, in the way that an adult would. I don't think anyone in their right mind would call newborns "evil." I wouldn't call very many adults evil, actually. Here is original sin/baptism as I understand it:

The point is that they are born in a state of "original sin." That is, before a baby (or an adult, in different denominations) is baptized, they are as Adam and Eve were after the Fall. They had fallen from the grace of God. Through baptism, they return to a state of sinlessness, where there are within God's grace. (Totally as I understand it). So it's not like God doesn't love the infant. The infant is just in a spiritual limbo, without any commitment to God.

If that first part sounded bitchy and the last part sounded confused, I'm sorry. I've been taking an incredible amount of cold medicine and I've been working in a dead language for the past few hours.
quote / posted 13 February 2011 8:03 PM
supporter graphic  Un-Jelli
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quoting: tripod2000
The whole point of the trinity is that it is three aspects of the same deity. It's been a long time since I read any Hindu texts but I recall there is a similar concept there. So God is one because he is the father, the son and the holy spirit.

Yeppers, Hinduism is a monotheism. God is merely capable of taking multiple forms, both male and female. These various forms have certain characteristics they exhibit.


Also, don't christians believe that women have periods as a result of Eve's sin?
quote / posted 13 February 2011 8:15 PM
sweetpealv123
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Click for profile 		No, I think it's that we will have incredibly painful childbirth.
quote / posted 13 February 2011 8:42 PM

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