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Jesus - Man can be God ?! (74 posts)
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Nice
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Click for profile 		Well Not at all,
having doubts, prove
Here are your proofs :

There are texts in the New Testament which confirm that Jesus did not act on his own. Jesus is quoted in John 5:30, as saying: “I can of mine own self do nothing...” and in Luke 11:20, as saying, “But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the Kingdom of God is come upon you.” In Acts 2:22, Paul writes: “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know...”
“EVIDENCE” FOR JESUS' DIVINITY

There are a number of verses which have been interpreted by the Catholic and
Protestant Churches as evidence for the Divinity of Jesus Christ. However, on close
examination of these verses, it becomes evident that, either their wordings are
ambiguous, leaving them open to a number of different interpretations, or they are
additions not found in the early manuscripts of the Bible. The following are some of the
most commonly quoted arguments.
1. The Alpha and Omega

In the Book of Revelation 1, verse 8, it is implied that Jesus said the following about himself: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” These are the attributes of God. Consequently, Jesus, according to early Christians, is here claiming divinity. However, the above-mentioned wording is according to the King James Version. In the Revised Standard Version, biblical scholars corrected the translation and wrote: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” A correction was also made in the New American Bible produced by Catholics. The translation of that verse has been amended to put it in its correct context as follows: “The Lord God says: 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the one who is and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.' ” With these corrections, it becomes evident that this was a statement of God and not a statement of Prophet Jesus.
2. The Pre-existence of Christ

Another verse commonly used to support the divinity of Jesus is John 8:58: “Jesus said unto them, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.' ” This verse is taken to imply that Jesus existed prior to his appearance on earth. The conclusion drawn from it is that Jesus must be God, since his existence predates his birth on earth. However, the concept of the pre-existence of the prophets, and of man in general, exists in both the Old Testament, as well as in the Qur'aan. Jeremiah described himself in The Book of Jeremiah 1:4-5 as follows: “5Now the word of the Lord came to me saying,5'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.' ”

Prophet Solomon is reported in Proverbs 8:23-27, to have said, “23Ages ago I was set up at the first, before the beginning of the earth.24When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water,25Before the http://www.islambasics.com

mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth;26before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world27When he established the heavens, I was there.”
According to Job 38:4 and 21, God addresses Prophet Job as follows: “4Where
were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding...
21You Know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great!”
In the Qur'aan, Chapter al-A'raaf, (7):172, God informed that man existed in the
spiritual form before the creation of the physical world.

“When your Lord gathered all of Aadam's descendants [before creation] and made
them bear witness for themselves, saying: 'Am I not your Lord?' They all replied:
Yes indeed, we bear witness. [That was] so you could not say on the Day of
Judgement: 'We were unaware of this.' ”

Consequently, Prophet Jesus' statement, “Before Abraham was, I am,” cannot be used as evidence of his divinity. Within the context of John 8:54-58, Jesus is purported to have spoken about God's knowledge of His prophets, which predates the creation of this world.
quote / posted 08 February 2011 2:14 AM
Nice
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Click for profile 		From "True message of Jesus" - Any thoughts ?!
quote / posted 08 February 2011 2:17 AM
DementedLeaf
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Click for profile 		Mostly I'm wondering what the point of posting this was.
quote / posted 08 February 2011 5:50 AM
TheGentleman
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Click for profile 		Proselytism.
quote / posted 08 February 2011 6:50 AM
DementedLeaf
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Click for profile 		It's not exactly easily accessible, though. Not likely to capture the interest of anyone who isn't already interested in such things.
quote / posted 08 February 2011 7:03 AM
TheGentleman
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Click for profile 		Yeah, but then there's people like me, who are interested in theology but don't believe in the Divinity.

edited for clarity

[This post edited by TheGentleman on 08 February 2011 ]

quote / posted 08 February 2011 7:23 AM
DementedLeaf
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Click for profile 		Yeah, that definitely counts as "interested in such things" - I guess I could've been clearer, too Very Happy

It's just that it doesn't seem like many religious people are interested in the finer details of their religions - though of course that could just be a false impression - and... maybe I should just take this post as an indication that the OP thinks we're bright enough to understand and leave it at that.
quote / posted 08 February 2011 7:40 AM
supporter graphic  Un-Jelli
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quoting: Nice
From "True message of Jesus" - Any thoughts ?!


Yup, Ganpati (aka Ganesh, also substitute in Krishna or Lakshmi if you like) is within all of us. So I agree that an individual can't be god in it's entireity, each individual is a part of god.

Also, your post was wicked long so I totally didn't read most of it. Seriously dude, when writing on message boards, summarising is key.
quote / posted 08 February 2011 8:04 AM
supporter graphic  tripod2000
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Click for profile 		I think the greeting "Namaste" as I think that eejit Deepak Chopra translates it is beautiful. He (If it was him) says it should translate as "That which is of God in me bows to that which is of God in you"

In that way, even not as a christian I would argue that Jesus is divine. For me it also highlights the failings of the superstitio whom make temples and sit in safety far from the realities of the world and the Godliness of those who are in need.

To the original poster I'd suggest your first point is not proof either way as it comes down to the belief that Jesus is the personification of God. If you believe Jesus is then the revised passages do still refer to Jesus. The second passage I think is more a mistranslation, a result of chinese whispers through the ages or the like. When I create a meal I know what it's going to be. When God creates a child in a womb he knows what that child will be. This is how I read this passage.
quote / posted 09 February 2011 4:06 AM
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quoting: Un-Jelli
So I agree that an individual can't be god in it's entireity, each individual is a part of god.

.


shocked!

You have a def. for God ?
you believe he is creator ?
how creator be creature {s} exclaimation!
quote / posted 09 February 2011 8:15 AM
supporter graphic  Un-Jelli
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Click for profile 		I do not believe in God in the way you refer to it. More so as an omnipresent force, meaning that it is in absolutely everything. Living or not.

I should clarify that last bit. I only believe it;s in all living creatures, and is essentially what makes things alive. Hinduism dictates that god is in absolutely all matter.

[This post edited by Un-Jelli on 09 February 2011 ]

quote / posted 09 February 2011 8:50 AM
my#11
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Click for profile 		I think one of the most common arguments for Jesus's divinity is his resurrection. While there are multiple examples of Jesus/disciples/prophets bringing people back to life, Jesus does it all by himself/with God alone. But really by himself if you're talking about the normal Christian belief of a triune God (God the Father, Son, Holy Ghost).
Frankly, the way I look at it is that religion is all about faith. Faith does not have to be proven by scientific fact. Otherwise it would be scientific fact.
quote / posted 09 February 2011 11:19 AM
supporter graphic  tripod2000
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quoting: Un-Jelli
I do not believe in God in the way you refer to it. More so as an omnipresent force, meaning that it is in absolutely everything. Living or not.

I should clarify that last bit. I only believe it;s in all living creatures, and is essentially what makes things alive. Hinduism dictates that god is in absolutely all matter.

[This post edited by Un-Jelli on 09 February 2011 ]



The Force!!!
quote / posted 09 February 2011 2:26 PM
supporter graphic  Un-Jelli
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Click for profile 		I was really wondering if anyone else would notice the similarity. Man I wish my best friend was a wooki.
quote / posted 09 February 2011 2:41 PM
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quoting: my#11
I think one of the most common arguments for Jesus's divinity is his resurrection. While there are multiple examples of Jesus/disciples/prophets bringing people back to life, Jesus does it all by himself/with God alone. But really by himself if you're talking about the normal Christian belief of a triune God (God the Father, Son, Holy Ghost).
Frankly, the way I look at it is that religion is all about faith. Faith does not have to be proven by scientific fact. Otherwise it would be scientific fact.


You mean that he brought people back to life, yes it was done by God power that was also given to other prophets.
quote / posted 09 February 2011 3:29 PM
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quoting: Un-Jelli
I do not believe in God in the way you refer to it. More so as an omnipresent force, meaning that it is in absolutely everything. Living or not.

I should clarify that last bit. I only believe it;s in all living creatures, and is essentially what makes things alive. Hinduism dictates that god is in absolutely all matter.

[This post edited by Un-Jelli on 09 February 2011 ]



Well, i guess the creaotor of the universe is who give lives to his creaures and take soul when our time is over .
quote / posted 09 February 2011 3:31 PM
my#11
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quote:
You mean that he brought people back to life, yes it was done by God power that was also given to other prophets.


I realize and acknowledged this. The part that makes Jesus different is the fact that he resurrected himself. There was no Peter or Elijah or God working through another person to resurrect him. They wouldn't be needed if you believe that Jesus is both fully human (and therefore has the ability to die) and fully God (and therefore has the ability to resurrect himself without help).

In the very least it makes his situation different.
quote / posted 09 February 2011 4:03 PM
supporter graphic  Un-Jelli
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quoting: Nice

Well, i guess the creaotor of the universe is who give lives to his creaures and take soul when our time is over .


I do not think it is a "he" who is actively giving or taking souls. I also don't think these souls go to some final resting place once their lives are done.
quote / posted 09 February 2011 5:38 PM
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quoting: my#11
quote:
You mean that he brought people back to life, yes it was done by God power that was also given to other prophets.


I realize and acknowledged this. The part that makes Jesus different is the fact that he resurrected himself. There was no Peter or Elijah or God working through another person to resurrect him. They wouldn't be needed if you believe that Jesus is both fully human (and therefore has the ability to die) and fully God (and therefore has the ability to resurrect himself without help).

In the very least it makes his situation different.


Well, i don't know what do you mean by saying there wasn't God working by other person ? God is eternal ! He who saved Jesus from those who wanted to kill him and the crucified person - in another miracle- was made similar by God while Jesus had already resurrected. So he DIDN'T resurrect himself, God did .
quote / posted 09 February 2011 9:50 PM
supporter graphic  tripod2000
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quoting: Un-Jelli
I was really wondering if anyone else would notice the similarity. Man I wish my best friend was a wooki.



Maaaahe murhhhhhhh maaaahaaa.

I notice because what you have said resonates as close to my personal beliefs which in turn are very close to what Obi-Wan says

"The Force .... It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

and Yoda

"Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us... and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this... crude matter! "
quote / posted 09 February 2011 11:34 PM

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