quoting: Atheist

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A lot of liberals feel like America has really gone down the toilet since Geroge W. Bush became President back in 2001. I am inclined majorly to agree, it least in a few main areas.

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-The economy is not doing as well as it was back in the 1990s, although this might not be entirely his fault.

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The attacks had significant economic repercussions for the United States and world markets. The New York Stock Exchange, the American Stock Exchange and NASDAQ did not open on September 11 and remained closed until September 17. New York Stock Exchange (“NYSE”) facilities and remote data processing sites were not damaged by the attack, but member firms, customers and markets were unable to communicate due to major damage to the telephone exchange facility near the World Trade Center. When the stock markets reopened on September 17, 2001, after the longest closure since the Great Depression in 1933, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (“DJIA”) stock market index fell 684 points, or 7.1%, to 8920, its biggest-ever one-day point decline. By the end of the week, the DJIA had fallen 1369.7 points (14.3%), its largest one-week point drop in history. U.S. stocks lost $1.2 trillion in value for the week. As of 2005 the streets surrounding the Stock Exchange on Wall Street are still barricaded to prevent a physical attack upon the building.

North American air space was closed for several days after the attacks and air travel decreased significantly upon its reopening. As of 2005, the U.S. airline industry has not fully recovered, and only a handful of American airline corporations are performing well.

All towers in the United States were evacuated during the aftermath of the terrorist attacks, including Los Angeles, where traffic was at its lowest volume ever for that city, and the major downtown business district was virtually deserted as most businesses were closed.

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-We have gone from surpluses to deficits in four years, unemployment ratings are slightly higher (the jobs 'created' under Bush's reign fail to account for population gains, and in many cases pay less than those the recession had lost)

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-Our military is in an undeniably difficult situation in Iraq. If you dispute this, then please answer why Bush has been unable/unwilling to give an exit strategy/timetable for our departure from Iraq.

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- Healthcare is in shambles and with the baby boomer generation getting ready to retire in short order, things will get far worse before they get better. Social Security, unfortunately, looks much the same.

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I think the under lying issue in all of this is that both Will and Alexander are swept up by Jacksonian politics. Their numbers will always differ, their logical arguments always opposing. In the end, everything they say will be of mere rhetorical value. One must question the validity of treating politics like war. Separating yourself into two distinct groups (liberals and conservatives) is merely the actions of sheep flocking to some symbolic beacon. It is not the sign of an informed voter...regardless of how many news clippings, public polls and media jargon you scrap book.

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quoting: Dante

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I think the under lying issue in all of this is that both Will and Alexander are swept up by Jacksonian politics. Their numbers will always differ, their logical arguments always opposing. In the end, everything they say will be of mere rhetorical value. One must question the validity of treating politics like war. Separating yourself into two distinct groups (liberals and conservatives) is merely the actions of sheep flocking to some symbolic beacon. It is not the sign of an informed voter...regardless of how many news clippings, public polls and media jargon you scrap book.

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quoting: Atheist

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There are many reasons why we do not need a war in Iraq.

The first and most obvious is probably the fact that there really is no convincing evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime actually has WMD in their posession. Until we have up close photos of the WMD, I don't think we should be charging into war.

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quoting: Atheist

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If we do goto war, what happens with Iraq after the war? We are talking a 5-10 year military occupation by most likely the United States to ensure any real kind of stable government can form there. Democracies aren't made overnight.

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quoting: Atheist

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The costs will be the stability of our economy here in America, possibly thousands of lives (if he does infact have and uses WMD or suicide bombs), and billions of dollars that should be spent to pump up our already failing state economies. The cost will be heavy on our political relations as well. The world will see the US as a belligerent superpower and Tony Blair as our unwitting puppet. War should only be looked at as a last resort. We shouldn't be looking at the UN as a stumbling block for war.

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[This post edited by Atheist on 21 June 2005 ]

[This post edited by Vespastic on 21 June 2005 ]